و مين قال أساسا أن الويكيبديا مصدر موثوق منه ؟؟؟ يابنى دى موسوعة حرة أنا نفسى ممكن أروح أكتب فيها موضوع و أجيب كام مصدر مضروبين و أخلص .... دى مراجيح مش موسوعة ...
أما عن مصطلح " pluralis excellentiae" ده تعالى أوريك أمتا أبتدى يستعمل
أما عن مصطلح " pluralis excellentiae" ده تعالى أوريك أمتا أبتدى يستعمل
"An Amazing Hoax: During the nineteenth century debates between Unitarians and Trinitarians, the principle of pluralis majestaticus was revealed to be a hoax popularized by the famous Jewish scholar Gesenius. It became clear that he used it as a ruse de guerre against Christianity." (Robert Morey, The Trinity, p95
حضرتك يعنى معنى كده أن مصطلحات مثل "pluralis excellentiae" و "pluralis majestaticus" مكانتش مستعملة قبل القرن التاسع عشر أساسا !! و اللى حاجج بيها هو يهودى أسمه جيسينيوس ليه بقى ؟؟؟ علشان يضرب المسيحية !
تعالى نكمل ...
E. What scholars say about "Plural of Majesty":
" 1-Every one who is acquainted with the rudiments of the Hebrew and Chaldee languages, must know that God, in the holy Writings, very often spoke of Himself in the plural. The passages are numerous, in which, instead of a grammatical agreement between the subject and predicate, we meet with a construction, which some modern grammarians, who possess more of the so-called philosophical than of the real knowledge of the Oriental languages, call a pluralis excellentiae. This helps them out of every apparent difficulty.
Such a pluralis excellentiae was, however, a thing unknown to Moses and the prophets. Pharaoh, Nebuchadnezzar, David, and all the other kings, throughout TeNaKh (the Law, the Prophets, and the Hagiographa) speak in the singular, and not as modern kings in the plural. They do not say we, but I, command; as in Gen. xli. 41; Dan. iii. 29; Ezra i. 2, etc." (Rabbi Tzvi Nassi, Oxford University professor, The Great Mystery, 1970, p6 , )
" 1-Every one who is acquainted with the rudiments of the Hebrew and Chaldee languages, must know that God, in the holy Writings, very often spoke of Himself in the plural. The passages are numerous, in which, instead of a grammatical agreement between the subject and predicate, we meet with a construction, which some modern grammarians, who possess more of the so-called philosophical than of the real knowledge of the Oriental languages, call a pluralis excellentiae. This helps them out of every apparent difficulty.
Such a pluralis excellentiae was, however, a thing unknown to Moses and the prophets. Pharaoh, Nebuchadnezzar, David, and all the other kings, throughout TeNaKh (the Law, the Prophets, and the Hagiographa) speak in the singular, and not as modern kings in the plural. They do not say we, but I, command; as in Gen. xli. 41; Dan. iii. 29; Ezra i. 2, etc." (Rabbi Tzvi Nassi, Oxford University professor, The Great Mystery, 1970, p6 , )
مكنش فيه حاجة أسمها جمع التعظيم "pluralis excellentiae" أيام موسى ... وألا تبرر ليه مفيش حد تانى أستعملها فى كل التناخ ( العهد القديم) ؟
The best answer that they [Old Hebrew lexicographers and grammarians] could give was that the plural form used for the name (or title) of God was the ‘pluralis majestatis,’ that is the plural of majesty…to say nothing of the fact that it is not at all certain that the ‘pluralis majestatis’ is ever found in the Old Testament, there is an explanation much nearer at hand and much simpler, and that is, that a plural name was used for the one God, in spite of the intense monotheism of the Jews, because there is a plurality of person in the one Godhead." (The God of the Bible, R. A.Torrey, 1923, p 64)
تانى و ثالث علشان خاطرك
تعالى بقى نشوف المصادر المسيحية الأولى بتفسر أزاى
تحب نبتدى من سنة كام ؟؟ تعالى من أول سنة 74 ميلادية
الأقتباس الأول من رسالة برنابا
74 AD Epistle of Barnabas: "For the ******ure says concerning us, while
He speaks to the Son, "Let Us make man after Our image, and after Our likeness" (Epistle of Barnabas, Chapter VI.—The Sufferings of Christ, and the New Covenant, Were Announced by the Prophets.) "
He speaks to the Son, "Let Us make man after Our image, and after Our likeness" (Epistle of Barnabas, Chapter VI.—The Sufferings of Christ, and the New Covenant, Were Announced by the Prophets.) "
رسالة برنابا كتبت فى القرن الأول المسيحى و حضرتك الرسالة بتفسر "نعمل الأنسان على صورتنا كشبهنا" بأن الأب بيكلم أبنه ... طبعا سنة 74 ميلادية كان بعض التلاميذ عايشين و كمان اليهود كانوا موجودين ... لو أستعمال "جمع التعظيم" موجود كان ظهر حد من ساعتها يكدب المسيحيين فى كده ...
ثانى أقتباس من حوار القديس يوستينوس الشهيد مع تريفو اليهودى ! واخد بالك مع مين ؟؟؟؟ مع تريفو اليهودى ! 'طبعا الحوار سنة 150 ميلاديا
150 AD Justin Martyr: Speaking of Jewish theologians Justin calls the Jewish teaching that God spoke to angels a hersey: "In saying, therefore, ‘as one of us, ’[Moses] has declared that [there is a certain] number of persons associated with one another, and that they are at least two. For I would not say that the
dogma of that heresy which is said to be among you (The Jews had their own heresies which supplied many things to the Christian heresies) is true, or that the teachers of it can prove that [God] spoke to angels, or that the human ***** was the workmanship of angels. But this Offspring, which was truly brought forth from the Father, was with the Father before all the creatures." (Dialogue of Justin Martyr, with Trypho, a Jew: Chapter LXII.—The Words "Let Us Make Man") "
dogma of that heresy which is said to be among you (The Jews had their own heresies which supplied many things to the Christian heresies) is true, or that the teachers of it can prove that [God] spoke to angels, or that the human ***** was the workmanship of angels. But this Offspring, which was truly brought forth from the Father, was with the Father before all the creatures." (Dialogue of Justin Martyr, with Trypho, a Jew: Chapter LXII.—The Words "Let Us Make Man") "
حضرتك هنا القديس يوستينوس الشهيد بيدعوا أن عقيدة "أن الله كان بيتكلم مع الملايكة" عقيدة هرطوقية ! و طبعا تريفو اليهودى أتخرس خالص قدامه و ماذكرش حاجة عن جمع التعظيم حضرتك ... لو كان مستعمل كان أحتج بيه
كفاية كده ...
كفاية كده ...
بحترمك جدا و يسوع بيحبك
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