الرد على شبهة: تيموثاوس الاولى 3: 16 دراسة تحليلية

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الرد على شبهة : تيموثاوس الاولى 3: 16 دراسة تحليلية


(وَبِالإِجْمَاعِ عَظِيمٌ هُوَ سِرُّ التَّقْوَى:اللهُ ظَهَرَ فِي الْجَسَدِ، تَبَرَّرَ فِي الرُّوحِ، تَرَاءَى لِمَلاَئِكَةٍ، كُرِزَ بِهِ بَيْنَ الأُمَمِ، أُومِنَ بِهِ فِي الْعَالَمِ، رُفِعَ فِي الْمَجْدِ.) ( تيموثاوس الاولى 3: 16)
(ترجمة الفانديك)


هذا النص مثار جدل كبير ، وقد اثاره المعترضون كثيرا على الانترت من حيث هل هو اصيل ام غير اصيل ، هل النص الاصلي هو (الله ظهر في الجسد ) ، ام ( الذي ظهر في الجسد ) ، ام ان النص الاصلي تم التلاعب فيه باضافة اي شيء الى النسخة اليونانية في عصر متأخر .


وفي هذا الرد سنقدم الرد بخصوص المخطوطات ، ولكن نناقش ايضا الفكر المعلن في النص ، سواء بالترجمات التي ظهرت فيها كلمة ( الله ) او التي ظهرت فيها كلمة (الذي) ، لان ايماننا ليس مبنيا على الحرف او الكلمة ، بل مبني على فكر كامل معلن في الكتاب المقدس كله من اوله الى آخره في وحدة وتناسق وتناغم .

اولا : الرد على الشبهات المثارة حول المخطوطات

النص الاصلي يظهر في اليونانية بهذا الشكل :


http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Ti&c=3&v=1&t=KJV#conc/16


καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον Θεὸς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ ἀνελήφθη ἐν δόξῃ




اما النص المختلف عليه فيظهر كما يلي باليونانية


καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον oV ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ ἀνελήφθη ἐν δόξῃ


جدير بالذكر ان النص الاصلي والذي يحتوي على ( الله ظهر في الجسد) موجود في اكثر من 300 مخطوطة

http://www.lamblion.net/Articles/ScottJones/false_citations.htm

والنصوص المختلف عليها هي خمس مخطوطات فقط ، هي :

Aleph A C F G.

http://www.skypoint.com/members/waltzmn/M a n u s c r i p t s Uncials.html#uFa


(ملحوظة : امحو المسافات بين الحروف لتفعيل الرابط )

ويظهر النص في ترجمة الملك جميس كما يلي


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

*********


ماهي المشكلة ، وما هو سبب الاختلاف بين النسخ ؟


من المعروف أن النسّاخ كانوا يكتبون اسم الله (ثيؤس - Θεὸς) بالاختصار في بعض المواضع من العهد الجديد ، وهذا شيء معروف وعادي في طريقة كتابة بعض الاسماء المقدسة ( NOMINA SACRA)في النسخ والنصوص اليونانية للعهد الجديد ، وهذا موقع يوضح جدول للكلمات والاختصارات اليونانية :

http://www.skypoint.com/members/waltzmn/NominaSacra.html


Nomina.gif


ولهذا فكانت كلمة الله والتي تكتب كاملة في اليونانية بهذا الشكل ، كانت تكتب ايضا اختصارا بالشكل الموضح بالفقرة ادناه ( الكلمات ملونة بالاحمر)

Sacred names, known generally by their Latin terminology as NOMINA SACRA, were abbreviated in manu s c r i p t s to conserve space, or as tokens of respect. When a sacred name was abbreviated, a light horizontal stroke was placed above the letters to signify the abbreviation.
Thus, the term for God - QEOS - was shortened by omitting the two inner letters and by affixing a horizontal line above the two remaining letters. The abbreviation would thus appear in the manu s c r i p t s as QS (technically, the final sigma looked very much like our capital C, but I will forego that nomenclature here to avoid confusion).

لاحظ الخط العرضي داخل الحرف الاول ( الدائري) ويطلق عليه (ثيتا theta - ) وكذلك الخط العرضي فوق الكلمة ، فهذا هو سبب اعتراض البعض ، فكما يتضح ، ان الكلمة اذا ما ازيلت الخطوط تكون قريبة الشبهة بالكلمة اليونانية

Vo

وتنطق ( اوس ) والذي يعبّر عن ضمير الغائب المذكر ويترجم (who ) في بعض الترجمات الانجليزية ، والتي تترجم (الذي) في بعض الترجمات العربية .

وقد ظهرت بعض الشبهات على المواقع الاسلامية تقول ان الاختصار ليس اصيلا ، ولكنه كلمة (اوس) والتي تعني ضمير الغائب والتي ترجمت في العربية الى ( الذي ) وقد تم اضافة الخطان العرضيان في حقبة تاريخية متأخرة ( اقوالهم هذه لكي ينسبوا التحريف في النسخ اليونانية ) ولكن هيهات ثم هيهات ، فان الله ساهر على كلمته ليجريها ( إرميا 1: 12)

فهذا رأي باحث اسمه (سكوت جونز ) (Scott Jones)

يقول انه قد تم اجراء ابحاثا على المخطوطة المسماة (Aleph) والمعروفة باسم السينائية ("Codex Sinaiticus." ) والتي ظهرت فيها الكلمة المختصرة والتي ترجمها البعض الى ( الذي ) ، بواسطة الموجات فوق البنفسجية التكنولوجية ، واثبت فيها ان كل الاحبار والخطوط المستخدمة في النسخة هي اصيلة ، وتمت في نفس العصر وبنفس يد الكاتب أو الناسخ ، واي تعديل في النسخة قد تم في نفس العصر بل وبواسطة الناسخ او الكاتب نفسه الذي قام بمراجعة المخطوطة وتعديل بعض الاخطاء الحاصلة اثناء النسخ بها ، ولم تدخل يد التحريف او الاضافة على النسخة في اي عصر متأخر ، وهي كلمة الله ( ثيؤس ) ومكتوبة بطريقة الاختصار التي شرحناها سابقا ، وبالطبع لا يمكن تحكيم ( خمس مخطوطات ) على ماجاء في المخطوطات التي يزيد عددها عن ( 300 مخطوطة ) وكلها تشهد لصحة الفقرة انها تقول ( الله ) .


http://www.lamblion.net/Articles/ScottJones/false_citations.htm



Four of these uncials -- A, C, F, G -- read THEOS in the original hand, contrary to the false citations in the NA/UBS critical apparatuses, whereas ultraviolet technology demonstrated that most of the corrections in the fifth manu****** -- Aleph -- ESPECIALLY those with doctrinal significance, were made before Aleph ever left the ******orium. Tischendorf stated arbitrarily and without foundation that Aleph’s corrector operated on this passage in the 12th century. The ultraviolet technological evidence produced by Milne & Skeat in the mid-twentieth century refuted Tischendorf. In fact, according to ultraviolet technology, the first s c r ibe of Aleph simply copied from his exemplars without deviation. Then, before Aleph ever left the s c r i p t o r ium, the same s c r ibe or a fellow s c r ibe came back and went over the m a n u s c r i p t, correcting as many obvious errors as he determined to exist. In other words, it is most probable that Aleph’s reading of THEOS is a correction contemporary with the original hand of the manu s c r i p t itself, and a correction contemporary with the original hand of the manu s c r i p t is more accurate than the original hand. Either way, the assertion that the corrector was a 12th century hand is dubious, at best.



الباحث يقول ايضا ان الكلمة ( اوس ) اذا كانت هي المكتوبة اصلا في المخطوطة ، فهي خطأ نحوي في القواعد اليونانية ، وربما يكون وضعه باللغة الانجليزية اقرب الى الفهم ( لاقتراب اللغة اليونانية في قواعدها للغة الانجليزية عن اللغة العربية ) .

Furthermore, the scant few manus c r i p t s missing the horizontal lines creates a SEVERE grammatical problem, for the Greek word OS (without the horizontal lines, which means "who") is a masculine relative pronoun that ends up modifying a NEUTER noun - in this case the noun "mystery." Significantly, this is not only HORRIBLE GREEK GRAMMAR, but the resulting clause ends up containing A PREDICATE WITHOUT A SUBJECT -- I say, the RESULTING CLAUSE ENDS UP CONTAINING A PREDICATE WITHOUT A SUBJECT -- which is of course ABSURD. Naturally, the only people who don't understand how ABSURD this grammatical error is are Anglo-bible scholars and modern version translators who can't speak Greek, whereas native Greeks who are fluent in English and who can actually speak their own mother tongue of Greek, unlike Anglo-bible scholars and modern version translators who pawn themselves off as experts in a language they can't even speak, testify just how utterly ABSURD this grammatical solecism is, a solecism that is so severe that not even a fledgling Greek schoolboy would commit it. See Definition Of Monogenes and Indictment Of Ignorance for just two short examples of the linguistic ignorance of Anglo-bible scholars and modern version translators.



شهادة شهود العيان للمخطوطة :


بل ويقول الباحث ان المخطوطة ( A) والمعروفة باسم
(Codex Alexandrinus)
كانت تظهر فيها الخطوط واضحة في العام 1626 ، حينما اعطيت المخطوطة للمتحف البريطاني ، وحتى وقت ( سكرايفنير S c r i v e n e r) فهو يشهد انه امتحن المخطوطة اكثر من 20 مرة خلال الاعوام المتتالية ، وكانت تظهر فيها بوضوح ان الكلمة هي ( الله ثيؤس ) ولكن مع الزمن فان الخطوط بدأت في البهتان ، وبالكاد ترى ، وهذه شهادة الخبراء الذين كانوا يدرسون المخطوطة على تتابع السنين ، وقد تم الموافقة على هذه الحقيقة اكثر من مرة ، حتى انهم اقروا ان اجراء اي فحوصات اخرى على المخطوطة لتحديد ما هو المكتوب فيها اصلا يعتبر عملا لا فائدة منه .

شهادة اخرى من (باتريك يونك Patric Young) والذي يشغل منصب اول حافظ المخطوطة ، في المتحف البريطاني ، انه كان يقرأها في الاصل ( الله ) وايضا ( هيوش Huish ) احد المشاركين في جمع المخطوطة ، أكد ان ( الله ) كانت واضحة القراءة في تيموثاوس الاولى 3: 16 ، وأخبر بهذا (بريان والتون Brian Walton ) قبل الطباعة الخامسة لمرجعه سنة 1657 ، وايضا اسقف بيرسون Bishop Pearson اختبر المخطوطة في نفس الحقبة وشهد ان ( الله ) كانت مكتوبة بطريقة لا تخطئها العين ، والاسقف فيل Bishop Fell في العام 1675 ايضا ، أكد ان ( الله ) هي اصل المخطوطة ولم يخطيء قراءتها بهذه الطريقة .

( Mill ميل ) والذي كان منشغلا في مخطوطات العهد الجديد منذ 1677 الى 1701 ، اعلن انه رأي بقايا الكلمة ( الله ) في تيموثاوس الاولى 3: 16 في المخطوطة ( A) ، وايضا ( بينتلي Bentley ) في العام 1716 لن يعرف اي قراءة اخرى تخالف ( الله ) في هذه الفقرة ، وفي العام 1718 اعلن ووتون Wotton

ليس هناك مجال للشك ، ان هذه المخطوطة دائما اظهرت ( الله ) ، و في منتصف القرن الثامن عشر كل من ويتيستين Wetstein و بيريمان Berriman عبرا ان المخطوطة (A) في الفقرة المذكورة هي اصيلة بكلمة ( الله ) ، وقد زاد على ذلك بيريمان Berriman وقال ان الخطوط خفيفة وفي طريقها للبهتان ، وفي المستقبل قد تختفي تماما ، حتى سيأتي الوقت الذي يشك فيه البعض انها كانت موجودة بالاصل . وقال انه ربما حاول احدهم ان يعيد الخط مرة اخرى فوق الحرف ولكن المحاولة لم تنجح ولازال الخط الاصلي واضحا .

(بينجل Bengel ) شهد في العام 1734 ان القراءة للمخطوطة في اصلها المكتوب بخط اليد هي ( الله ) ووايدي Woide شهد ايضا في العام 1765 انه اختبر المخطوطة ، وقراءتها بلا ادني شك هي ( الله ) في خط اليد الاصلي المكتوب بها ، وعلى هذا ، فانه بعد عشرين عاما بعد هذا ، نفس الخطوط بدأت في البهتان .

وهذا اقتباس من شاهد عيان بنفسه ( جون بيرجون )


John Burgon --
“The fact remains for all that, that the original reading of A is attested so amply, that no sincere lover of Truth can ever hereafter pretend to doubt it... it is too late by 150 years to contend on the negative side of the question... The plain fact concerning Cod. A is this - That at 1 Tim. iii. 16, two delicate horizontal strokes in THEOS which were thoroughly patent in 1628, which could be seen plainly down to 1737, and which were discernible by an expert (Dr. Woide) so late as A.D. 1765, have for the last hundred years entirely disappeared, which is precisely what Berriman in 1741 predicted would be the case.” Revision Revised, 432-436


تظل الحقيقة فوق هذا ، ان القراءة الاصلية للمخطوطة (A) تشهد باسهاب ، ليس هناك عالم محب للحقيقة ، يستطيع ان يناقش او يشك فيها ، انه من المتأخر بمقدار 150 سنة ، ان نميل الى الجانب السلبي في السؤال ، الحقيقة الناصعة بخصوص المخطوطة هي انه في تيموثاوس الاولى 3: 16 هناك خطان عرضيان رقيقان يشكلان كلمة ( الله ) والتي تأكدت بدقة في العام 1628 والتي كانت ترى بوضوح حتى العام 1737 ، والتي شهد لها ووصفها بواسطة الخبراء ، ( الدكتور وويدي Dr. Woide ) المتوفى في العام 1765 ميلادية ، وخلال المائة عام التالية ، بهتت ، والذي بتقدير كبير تنبأ عنه العالم بريمان Berriman في العام 1714 وتوقع ما سيصل اليه الحال .)




شهادة بعض الآباء في العصر الاول للمسيحية


ديونيسيوس ( 265 ميلادية ) ، وهيبوليتاس ( 170 – 236 ميلادية ) ، والقديس اغناطيوس (110 ميلادية) ، هؤلاء اقتبسوا الفقرة من الكتاب المقدس وكانت ( الله ظهر في الجسد ) .



Dionysius (265 AD) quotes this passage in Greek WORD FOR WORD with the Textus Receptus/Authorised Version, inserting only the copula “gar.” (Concilia i. 858a). So much for the naked assertions that the testimony for this passage is late.

Hippolytus (170 - 236 AD) in Against Noetus paraphrases this passage at least three times. For example, “FOR OUR GOD SOJOURNED WITH US IN THE FLESH.” And again, “Thus, too, they preached the advent of GOD IN THE FLESH to the world.” And again, “He now, coming forth into the world, WAS MANIFESTED AS GOD IN A BODY.”


المراجع والمصادر

http://www.lamblion.net/Articles/ScottJones/false_citations.htm

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Ti&c=3&v=1&t=KJV#conc/16

http://www.skypoint.com/members/waltzmn/NominaSacra.html

http://www.skypoint.com/members/waltzmn/M a n u s c r i p t s Uncials.html

امح المسافات بين الحروف لتفعيل الرابط

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messia...c/message/3947

http://www.revisedstandardversion.net/text/WNP/ap_h.html#_ftn15

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/message/9925
 
التعديل الأخير:

NEW_MAN

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ثانيا : مناقشة موضوعية لروح النص




النص في سياقه يشرح المقصود من المعنى كاملا ، سواء بترجمة الكلمة ( الله ) او ( الذي ) ، وهذا هو النص في سياقه :



(14 هَذَا أَكْتُبُهُ إِلَيْكَ رَاجِياً أَنْ آتِيَ إِلَيْكَ عَنْ قَرِيبٍ.
15 وَلَكِنْ إِنْ كُنْتُ أُبْطِئُ فَلِكَيْ تَعْلَمَ كَيْفَ يَجِبُ أَنْ تَتَصَرَّفَ فِي بَيْتِ اللهِ، الَّذِي هُوَ كَنِيسَةُ اللهِ الْحَيِّ، عَمُودُ الْحَقِّ وَقَاعِدَتُهُ.
16 وَبِالإِجْمَاعِ عَظِيمٌ هُوَ سِرُّ التَّقْوَى: اللهُ ظَهَرَ فِي الْجَسَدِ، تَبَرَّرَ فِي الرُّوحِ، تَرَاءَى لِمَلاَئِكَةٍ، كُرِزَ بِهِ بَيْنَ الأُمَمِ، أُومِنَ بِهِ فِي الْعَالَمِ، رُفِعَ فِي الْمَجْدِ.)
(ترجمة الفانديك )



( 14 هذه التوصيات أكتبها إليك، وأنا أرجو أن آتي إليك بأكثر سرعة، 15 حتى إذا تأخرت تعلم كيف يجب التصرف في بيت الله، أي كنيسة الله الحي، ركن الحق ودعامته.
16 وباعتراف الجميع، أن سر التقوى عظيم: الله ظهر في الجسد، شهد الروح لبره، شاهدته الملائكة، بشر به بين الأمم، أومن به في العالم، ثم رفع في المجد.)
(ترجمة الحياة التفسيرية )



(14 أكتب إليك هذه الرسالة راجيا أن أجيء إليك بعد قليل. 15 فإذا أبطأت، فعليك أن تعرف كيف تتصرف في بيت الله، أي كنيسة الله الحي، عمود الحق ودعامته.
16 ولا خلاف أن سر التقوى عظيم (( الذي ظهر في الجسد وتبرر في الروح، شاهدته الملائكة، كان بشارة للأمم، آمن به العالم ورفعه الله في المجد)).
(ترجمة الاخبار السارة )




(14 كتبت إليك بذلك راجيا أن ألحق بك بعد قليل. 15 فإذا أبطأت فاعلم كيف تتصرف في بيت الله، أعني كنيسة الله الحي، عمود الحق وركنه.
16 ولا خلاف أن سر التقوى عظيم: (( قد أظهر في الجسد وأعلن بارا في الروح وتراءى للملائكة وبشر به عند الوثنيين وأومن به في العالم ورفع في المجد )).
(الترجمة اليسوعية )


**********


فاذا اخذنا باي الترجمات ( سواء التي ظهرت فيها كلمة الله او التي ظهرت فيها الذي ) فهي تتكلم عن (كائن ) وتقول عنه ( الذي ) وهي كلمة في اللغة العربية يشار بها الى عاقل او غير عاقل ولكن في اللغة الانجليزية تظهر بوضوح انها تقول ( He who)



كما تظهر في بعض الترجمات الانجليزية التي اختارت ترجمة النص (بدون كلمة الله ) فجاءت على هذا النحو ( كمثال ) .



(NIV)


Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.



وعلى هذا فالنص يقول عن ( كائن ) وتصفه كما يلي :


اولا : جاء او ظهر في الجسد


ثانيا : تبرر في الروح


ثالثا : شاهدته او تراءي الملائكة


رابعا : كان بشارة بين الامم او الوثنيين


خامسا : أؤمن به في العالم


سادسا : رفع في المجد


سابعا : وهذا اهم شيء ، وصف بأن هذا العمل ( ظهوره في الجسد ) سر عظيم !!!!




وتعال نحلل ما يقوله النص ببعض العقلانية :



انه يتكلم عن ( كائن ) روحاني ، ظهر في الجسد . فهل يقصد ( ظهور ملاك في صورة الجسد ) ؟؟؟
وهل ظهور الملاك ( سر عظيم ) لقد ظهرت الملائكة كثيرا في العهد القديم ، ولم يشار الى اي منها انه ( سر عظيم ) ، كما ان الملائكة لا يكرز ولا يبشر بها بين الامم والوثنيين ، وخاصة المسيحيين الذين يعرفون ان عبادة الملائكة ممنوعة منعا باتا :


( لاَ يُخَسِّرْكُمْ احَدٌ الْجِعَالَةَ، رَاغِباً فِي التَّوَاضُعِ وَعِبَادَةِ الْمَلاَئِكَةِ، مُتَدَاخِلاً فِي مَا لَمْ يَنْظُرْهُ، مُنْتَفِخاً بَاطِلاً مِنْ قِبَلِ ذِهْنِهِ الْجَسَدِيِّ،)
(كولوسي 2: 18)




اذا فهو ليس ملاكا ولا حتى رئيس ملائكة .
وحتى لايتهمنا احد بعدم المنطقية او العقلانية في الاستنتاج ، فاننا لن نضع جوابنا نحن على هذا السؤال ( من هو الذي ظهر في الجسد ) ويخبرنا عنه الرسول بولس في رسالته الى تيموثاوس ؟؟



بل سنطلب كلمة الله الحية ، بالوحي المقدس على لسان الرسول يوحنا ، لتجيب على هذا السؤال ، فيقول :
(1 أَيُّهَا الأَحِبَّاءُ، لاَ تُصَدِّقُوا كُلَّ رُوحٍ، بَلِ امْتَحِنُوا الأَرْوَاحَ: هَلْ هِيَ مِنَ اللهِ؟ لأَنَّ أَنْبِيَاءَ كَذَبَةً كَثِيرِينَ قَدْ خَرَجُوا إِلَى الْعَالَمِ.
2 بِهَذَا تَعْرِفُونَ رُوحَ اللهِ: كُلُّ رُوحٍ يَعْتَرِفُ بِيَسُوعَ الْمَسِيحِ أَنَّهُ قَدْ جَاءَ فِي الْجَسَدِ فَهُوَ مِنَ اللهِ،
3 وَكُلُّ رُوحٍ لاَ يَعْتَرِفُ بِيَسُوعَ الْمَسِيحِ أَنَّهُ قَدْ جَاءَ فِي الْجَسَدِ فَلَيْسَ مِنَ اللهِ. وَهَذَا هُوَ رُوحُ ضِدِّ الْمَسِيحِ الَّذِي سَمِعْتُمْ أَنَّهُ يَأْتِي، وَالآنَ هُوَ فِي الْعَالَمِ.)
(1 يوحنا 4: 1 - 3)

وايضا :



( لأَجْلِ هَذَا أُظْهِرَ ابْنُ اللهِ لِكَيْ يَنْقُضَ أَعْمَالَ إِبْلِيسَ.) (1 يوحنا 3: 8 )

وايضا :

(1 فِي الْبَدْءِ كَانَ الْكَلِمَةُ وَالْكَلِمَةُ كَانَ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ وَكَانَ الْكَلِمَةُ اللَّهَ.)
(14 وَالْكَلِمَةُ صَارَ جَسَداً وَحَلَّ بَيْنَنَا وَرَأَيْنَا مَجْدَهُ مَجْداً كَمَا لِوَحِيدٍ مِنَ الآبِ مَمْلُوءاً نِعْمَةً وَحَقّاً.)
(يوحنا 1: 1 و 14)


هذا هو الرد بالوحي الالهي اذا ، يسوع المسيح جاء في الجسد ، هذا هو السر العظيم ، ولكن هو هذا يقول ان يسوع المسيح هو الله ؟؟؟

ارجع مرة اخرى الى سياق النص في الرسالة الى تيموثاوس : الرسول يكلم تيموثاوس ، ويقول له ان تأخيره هو لكي يعرف كيف يتصرف في كنيسة الله ، عمود الحق وقاعدته (اي الله ) ثم اذا اردت ان تأخذ النص القائل ( الذي ظهر في الجسد ) فهي تعود على كائن روحاني ظهر في الجسد ، هو الذي يكرز به بين الامم ويؤمن به العالم وهو في ظهوره في الجسد هو شخص المسيح ،الذي مات وقام ورفع في المجد ، وتراءي للملائكة .


اخي العزيز ، لا تقاوم الحق الالهي ، فهو واضح واكبر من تطمسه الحروف والاوراق ، فكما يقول الكتاب (الحرف يقتل ولكن الروح يحي )


وهذا هو روح الرسالة ، نصا وفكرا وفهما ، فان ضاع الحرف فنحن لنا فكر المسيح ( 1 كورنثوس 2: 16) فشكرا لله على عطيته التي لا يعبّرعنها .


(5 لَيْسَ أَنَّنَا كُفَاةٌ مِنْ أَنْفُسِنَا أَنْ نَفْتَكِرَ شَيْئاً كَأَنَّهُ مِنْ أَنْفُسِنَا، بَلْ كِفَايَتُنَا مِنَ اللهِ، 6 الَّذِي جَعَلَنَا كُفَاةً لأَنْ نَكُونَ خُدَّامَ عَهْدٍ جَدِيدٍ. لاَ الْحَرْفِ بَلِ الرُّوحِ. لأَنَّ الْحَرْفَ يَقْتُلُ وَلَكِنَّ الرُّوحَ يُحْيِي.)
(كورنثوس الثانية 3: 5- 6)
 

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قنبله هيدروجينيه للرد عل الشبهه و رد علمي بدون سفسطه و تحيز و تعصب

لا رد وافي الصراحه لان الشبهه دي وواحده تانيه كمان مثيرين للشكوك و المسلمين نازلين طنطنه للاسف باي خطا في اي مخطوطه في حين انه يوجد مخطوطات يوجد بها اخطاء فهل هذا تحريف

شكرا نيومان علي التعب و انا عارفه البحث و احضار الماده العلميه و التنسيق وكل دا تعب لدرجه ايه

يبارك لك في تعبك و كرازتك

و احب اختم بكلمه اخيره للقديس بولس

وَإِنْ لَمْ يَكُنِ الْمَسِيحُ قَدْ قَامَ فَبَاطِلَةٌ كِرَازَتُنَا وَبَاطِلٌ أَيْضاً إِيمَانُكُمْ
وَنُوجَدُ نَحْنُ أَيْضاً شُهُودَ زُورٍ لِلَّهِ لأَنَّنَا شَهِدْنَا مِنْ جِهَةِ اللهِ أَنَّهُ أَقَامَ الْمَسِيحَ وَهُوَ لَمْ يُقِمْهُ - إِنْ كَانَ الْمَوْتَى لاَ يَقُومُونَ.


سلام و نعمه
 

HABIB YAS03

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تحت ظل حبيبي
سلام ومحبة

مع احترماي الشديد لك , ولكن انا اختلف معك فيه كثير من الامور التي قلتها

مثلا

النص الاصلي يظهر في اليونانية بهذا الشكل :


http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Ti&c=3&v=1&t=KJV#conc/16



καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον Θεὸς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ ἀνελήφθη ἐν δόξῃ




اما النص المختلف عليه فيظهر كما يلي باليونانية



καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον oV ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ ἀνελήφθη ἐν δόξῃ


جدير بالذكر ان النص الاصلي والذي يحتوي على ( الله ظهر في الجسد) موجود في اكثر من 300 مخطوطة

المخطوطات الاصلية للعهد الجديد مفقودة كيف حكمت ان قراءة الله هي الاصلية ؟؟
قراءة الذي موجودة في اقدم المخطوطات

اما وجود قراءة في عدد كبير من المخطوطات هذا لا يعني انها الاصلية او الصحيحة والعبرة ليست في عدد المخطوطات ولكن اقدمها

والنصوص المختلف عليها هي خمس مخطوطات فقط ، هي :

Aleph A C F G.

كلام ليس دقيق

هذه المخطوطات فيها قراءة الذي
*א* A* C* F G 33 (256 l597 ὃς θεὸς) 365 442 1175 2127 l60 l599 syrh(mg) syrpal goth eth


وهنا احب ان اشير الى كلام بروس ميتزجر

The reading which, on the basis of external evidence and tran******ional probability, best explains the rise of the others is ς. It is supported by the earliest and best uncials ([FONT=Times New Roman (Hebrew),Times New Roman]א[/FONT]* A* C* G) as well as by 33 365 442 2127 syr, goth eth Origen Epiphanius Jerome Theodore Eutherius Cyril Cyril Liberatus. Furthermore, since the neuter relative pronoun must have arisen as a ***ibal correction of ς (to bring the relative into concord with μυστήριον), the witnesses that read (D* it, , , vg Ambrosiaster Marius Victorinus Hilary Pelagius Augustine) also indirectly presuppose ς as the earlier reading. The Textus Receptus reads θεός, with [FONT=Times New Roman (Hebrew),Times New Roman]א[/FONT]e (this corrector is of the twelfth century) A C D K L P Ψ 81 330 614 1739 Byz Lect Gregory-Nyssa Didymus Chrysostom Theodoret Euthalius and later Fathers. Thus, no uncial (in the first hand) earlier than the eighth or ninth century (Ψ) supports θεός; all ancient versions presuppose ς or ; and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century testifies to the reading θεός. The reading θεός arose either (a) accidentally, through the misreading of ος as ΘΣ, or (b) deliberately, either to supply a substantive for the following six verbs, or, with less probability, to provide greater dogmatic precision.


 

HABIB YAS03

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تحت ظل حبيبي
و في منتصف القرن الثامن عشر كل من ويتيستين wetstein و بيريمان berriman عبرا ان المخطوطة (a) في الفقرة المذكورة هي اصيلة بكلمة ( الله )

المخطوطة الاسكندرية انقسم العلماء ماذا تقرا ولكن الغالبية منهم يقولو انها تقرا الذي وليس الله

كما اشرت بالمشاركة السابقة مخطوطة a*
 

apostle.paul

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طرح رائع ويكفى شهادة اقدم اباء الكنيسة اليس هذا التواتر المسروق فى افكار اخرى؟
كل الاباء اقتبسوا كلمة الله ظهر فى الجسد والمخطوطات تشهد بان الله ظهر فى الجسد
والنص نفسه يشهد بان الله ظهر فى الجسد
واكيد السادة المسلمين بيقروا المواضيع من عنده اعتراض فليتقدم والا فليصمتوا صمت القبور كالمعتاد فى جحورهم
 

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سلام ومحبة

مع احترماي الشديد لك , ولكن انا اختلف معك فيه كثير من الامور التي قلتها

اخي الحبيب ، لك ان تختلف ، ولكن عليك ان تقدم الدليل على اعتراضك

اما ان تختلف لمجرد ان لك رأيا مختلفا ، فهذا التفكير عاطفي وليس مبني على الدراسة والاسانيد والادلة ، يؤسفني ان اراك تكرر الكلام الذي يقوله البعض ، والذي قدمنا هذا الرد عليه ، فانا احيلك مرة اخرى ان تقرأ الرد كاملا ، فانت للاسف لم تقدم جديدا بعد تقديم الرد ، ولكنك تكرر فقط الاقوال التي يتداولها البعض والتي نرد عليها هنا .

المخطوطات الاصلية للعهد الجديد مفقودة كيف حكمت ان قراءة الله هي الاصلية ؟؟
قراءة الذي موجودة في اقدم المخطوطات

انا لم احكم على النص بوجود المخطوطة الاصلية ، ولكن عندما كتبت المخطوطات الاصلية ، اقصد المخطوطة التي ترجع الى تاريخ اكتشافها وموجودة في المتحف ، والتي تم اجراء فحصوات الاشعة فوق البنفسجية عليها وليس على صورة منها .

اما وجود قراءة في عدد كبير من المخطوطات هذا لا يعني انها الاصلية او الصحيحة والعبرة ليست في عدد المخطوطات ولكن اقدمها


هناك عدة امور وقواعد يحكم عليها العلماء المختصون في قبول نص ورفضه ، وبالطبع ليس وجوده في عدد كبير من المخطوطات هو احدها .

ولكن بالتأكيد ليس وجوده في اقدم المخطوطات المكتشفة معناها صحة النص ، فيمكن ان يرجع النص القديم الى زمن وجود هرطقة سائدة ، تؤثر حتى في الناسخ او الكاتب نفسه ( مثل وجود هرطقة الغنوسية وانتشارها في القرن الرابع والخامس ) .


كلام ليس دقيق

هذه المخطوطات فيها قراءة الذي
*א* a* c* f g 33 (256 l597 ὃς θεὸς) 365 442 1175 2127 l60 l599 syrh(mg) syrpal goth eth



ارجو ان تذكر المصدر على كلامك ، لان الاختلاف هو في خمس مخطوطات فقط ، تم ذكرها في البحث ، اما باقي المخطوطات التي تذكرها فهي لا تختلف في القراءة ، وكما قلت ارجع الى البحث لانك ربما خلطت بين قراءة كلمة ( ثيؤس )الكاملة او ( في اختصارها ) .


وهنا احب ان اشير الى كلام بروس ميتزجر

the reading which, on the basis of external evidence and tran******ional probability, best explains the rise of the others is ς. It is supported by the earliest and best uncials ([font=times new roman (hebrew),times new roman]א[/font]* a* c* g) as well as by 33 365 442 2127 syr, goth eth origen epiphanius jerome theodore eutherius cyril cyril liberatus. Furthermore, since the neuter relative pronoun must have arisen as a ***ibal correction of ς (to bring the relative into concord with μυστήριον), the witnesses that read (d* it, , , vg ambrosiaster marius victorinus hilary pelagius augustine) also indirectly presuppose ς as the earlier reading. The textus receptus reads θεός, with [font=times new roman (hebrew),times new roman]א[/font]e (this corrector is of the twelfth century) a c d k l p Ψ 81 330 614 1739 byz lect gregory-nyssa didymus chrysostom theodoret euthalius and later fathers. Thus, no uncial (in the first hand) earlier than the eighth or ninth century (Ψ) supports θεός; all ancient versions presuppose ς or ; and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century testifies to the reading θεός. The reading θεός arose either (a) accidentally, through the misreading of ος as ΘΣ, or (b) deliberately, either to supply a substantive for the following six verbs, or, with less probability, to provide greater dogmatic precision.



اولا ، ارجو ان تضع مصدرا لكلامك ، فالرد على كلام مقتبس بدون مصدر او دليل لا يعتد به ، ومع ذلك ساقوم بالرد ،

اعتقد اننا قمنا بتغطية الرد على هذا الكلام مسبقا ، لاننا اوردنا شهادة علماء اقدم ممن قاموا برؤية ودراسة المخطوطة في زمن اقدم وقالوا انها تقرأ ( ثيؤس ) ، كما ان اقتباسات الآباء من العصور الاولى المسيحية والتي ترجع الى القرن الاول والثاني وفيها ( الله ظهر في الجسد ) تحسم الموضوع اكثر من كلام بروس ميتزجر او حتى اي عالم آخر سواء مؤكد او معارض للنص .


كما اننا قمنا بتقديم تحليل لروح النص ، وسواء كنت تقرأ بالترجمة ( الله ظهر في الجسد ) او ( الذي ظهر في الجسد ) فان روح النص تقول ان الكلام عن شخص الله الذي ظهر في الجسد في شخص الرب يسوع المسيح .

سلام المسيح .
 
التعديل الأخير:

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وسواء كنت تقرأ بالترجمة ( الله ظهر في الجسد ) او ( الذي ظهر في الجسد ) فان روح النص تقول ان الكلام عن شخص الله الذي ظهر في الجسد في شخص الرب يسوع المسيح .

بالذمه مش المعني واحد الجملتين

عظيم هو سر التقوي الذي ظهر في الجسد تبرر في الروح و تراي للملائكه

عظيم هو سر التقوي الله ظهر في الجسد تبرر في الروح و تراي للملائكه

هل المعني واضح ولا حصل فرق باختلاف الكلمه الذي مكان الله مش الاتنين مشيرين لشئ واحد

مش قصد بولس في الرساله واضح يا جماعه ولا ايه وواضح تماما من الوصف ولا ايه

تحياتي ليكم يا جماعه

سلام و نعمه
 

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بالذمه مش المعني واحد الجملتين

عظيم هو سر التقوي الذي ظهر في الجسد تبرر في الروح و تراي للملائكه

عظيم هو سر التقوي الله ظهر في الجسد تبرر في الروح و تراي للملائكه

هل المعني واضح ولا حصل فرق باختلاف الكلمه الذي مكان الله مش الاتنين مشيرين لشئ واحد

مش قصد بولس في الرساله واضح يا جماعه ولا ايه وواضح تماما من الوصف ولا ايه

تحياتي ليكم يا جماعه

سلام و نعمه

طبعا ، هذا هو الفارق بين الكتاب المقدس ، والكتب الاخرى
فالكتاب المقدس مبني على فكرا كاملا ، وليس على آية واحدة او حتى فقرة واحدة .

الكتاب المقدس كتبه اكثر من 40 كاتبا ، على مدار 1500 سنة واكثر
كل الكتاب على اختلاف ثقافاتهم وازمنتهم وعصورهم اتفقوا في نفس الخط الواضح والفكر الواضح المعلن في الكتاب المقدس ، بالنبؤات التي قالها الانبياء وتحقيقها في شخص الرب يسوع المسيح .

الله الظاهر في الجسد

(وَلَكِنْ إِنْ بَشَّرْنَاكُمْ نَحْنُ أَوْ مَلاَكٌ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ بِغَيْرِ مَا بَشَّرْنَاكُمْ، فَلْيَكُنْ «أَنَاثِيمَا».)
(غلاطية 1: 8)
 

HABIB YAS03

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تحت ظل حبيبي
[QUOTE]اما ان تختلف لمجرد ان لك رأيا مختلفا ، فهذا التفكير عاطفي وليس مبني على الدراسة والاسانيد والادلة ، يؤسفني ان اراك تكرر الكلام الذي يقوله البعض ، والذي قدمنا هذا الرد عليه ، فانا احيلك مرة اخرى ان تقرأ الرد كاملا ، فانت للاسف لم تقدم جديدا بعد تقديم الرد ، ولكنك تكرر فقط الاقوال التي يتداولها البعض والتي نرد عليها هنا .[/QUOTE]

كلامي عن ضياع الاصول ليس كلام عاطفي اكرره عن البعض وانا اعرف الرد العلمي عليه , ولو كنت تملك الان الاصول لما كتبت ردك على هذا الموضوع اساسا .


[QUOTE]هناك عدة امور وقواعد يحكم عليها العلماء المختصون في قبول نص ورفضه ، وبالطبع ليس وجوده في عدد كبير من المخطوطات هو احدها .[/QUOTE]

***************

القواعد النصية
واكتبها لك
القراءة الاقدم هي المفضلة
القراءة الاصعب
القراءة التي يدعمها توزيع جغرافي
القراءة الاقصر هي المفضلة
القراءة التي تتناسب مع اسلوب الكاتب وبقية السفر هي المفضلة
هذه بعضها


[QUOTE]ارجو ان تذكر المصدر على كلامك ، لان الاختلاف هو في خمس مخطوطات فقط ، تم ذكرها في البحث ، اما باقي المخطوطات التي تذكرها فهي لا تختلف في القراءة ، وكما قلت ارجع الى البحث لانك ربما خلطت بين قراءة كلمة ( ثيؤس )الكاملة او ( في اختصارها ) .[/QUOTE]

عندما يكون عندي الوقت سوف اكتب لك رسالة خاصة


857754753.png




هذه صورة من نسخة UBS4 موضح المخطوطات التي تقرا الله والتي تقرا الذي ولاحظ معي ايضا ان اللجنة وضعت قراءة الذي درجة A وهذا يعني انهم متاكدين ان الذي هي الاصلية

بالنسبة للاختصارات واذا كنت اختلط علي الامر , انا حافظ الاختصارت وكيف تكتبت بالمخطوطات وعارفها وانا دقيق ومحايد وعلمي بدراستي للنقد النصي






اولا ، ارجو ان تضع مصدرا لكلامك ، فالرد على كلام مقتبس بدون مصدر او دليل لا يعتد به ، ومع ذلك ساقوم بالرد ،


حاضر سهلة اي دارس للمخطوطات يملك هذا المصدر ( اذا كنت تريده انا تحت الخدمة )

A Textual Commentary On The Greek New Teastment by Bruce M. Metzger
التعليق النصي للعهد الجديد لبروس ميتزجر



لاننا اوردنا شهادة علماء اقدم ممن قاموا برؤية ودراسة المخطوطة في زمن اقدم وقالوا انها تقرأ ( ثيؤس )

وضح اكثر ؟

هذه صورة لها


22686822.png
 
التعديل الأخير بواسطة المشرف:

NEW_MAN

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عزيزي سوف ارد على ما يستحق الرد
انا لست هنا للدفاع عن نفسي ولذلك ساقوم بالرد على ماجاء بخصوص محتوى الموضوع

857754753.png




هذه صورة من نسخة UBS4 موضح المخطوطات التي تقرا الله والتي تقرا الذي ولاحظ معي ايضا ان اللجنة وضعت قراءة الذي درجة A وهذا يعني انهم متاكدين ان الذي هي الاصلية

بالنسبة للاختصارات واذا كنت اختلط علي الامر , انا حافظ الاختصارت وكيف تكتبت بالمخطوطات وعارفها وانا دقيق ومحايد وعلمي بدراستي للنقد النصي

يبدو انك لم تقرأ الموضوع قبل ان تضع ردك .
لان هذه الجزئية تم الرد عليها ، واذا لم تلتفت اليها في الموضوع ، احيلك على الموقع الذي يرد على هذه الجزئية بتفصيل اكبر

http://www.lamblion.net/Articles/ScottJones/false_citations.htm






تقول انك دارس للغة اليونانية وتعرف اختصارات الكلمات المقدسة

فانظر الى ماجاء بالمخطوطة بنفسك ، وقل لي هل تقرأها ( اوس ) ام تقرأها ( ثيؤس ) بالاختصار ؟؟؟

هل ترى الخط العرضي داخل حرف ( ثيتا ) الدائري ، والخط العرضي فوق الكلمة ام لا تراها ؟؟



Nomina.gif

Sacred names, known generally by their Latin terminology as NOMINA SACRA, were abbreviated in manu******s to conserve space, or as tokens of respect. When a sacred name was abbreviated, a light horizontal stroke was placed above the letters to signify the abbreviation. Thus, the term for God - QEOS - was shortened by omitting the two inner letters and by affixing a horizontal line above the two remaining letters. The abbreviation would thus appear in the manu******s as QS (technically, the final sigma looked very much like our capital C, but I will forego that nomenclature here to avoid confusion).
Well, it just so happens that by removing the horizontal line ABOVE the abbreviation and by removing the small horizontal line WITHIN the Theta (the first letter of the word) another legitimate Greek word that looks like this - OS - is produced.​
 
التعديل الأخير:

My Rock

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منقوش على كفيه
الأحبة new_man و habib_yaso3
هل لكم تكملة باقي نقاشكم على الخاص رجاءاً؟
 

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الأحبة new_man و habib_yaso3
هل لكم تكملة باقي نقاشكم على الخاص رجاءاً؟

كنت اتمنى من الاخ حبيب يسوع ان يراسلني بخصوص ملاحظاته ، ولكن حيث انه وضع ملاحظاته هنا ، فكان الرد هنا ، حتى لا اقوم بالحذف ويتهمني بالتحيز او عدم القدرة على الرد .

عموما اعتقد ان الرد الاخير ، بوضعه المخطوطة وهو واضحة فيها القراءة لمن يعرف اليونانية انها جاءت ( الله - ثيؤس ) في الاختصار ، اي استطراد للرد اتمنى من الاخ ان يراسلني على الخاص .
 

+GOSPEL OF TRUTH+

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+كنيستي+
عموما مهما كان موضوع خلافي احنا استفدنا كتير من الموضوع القيم دا علي الاقل نعرف نرد علي الي قدامنا

شكرا علي الموضوع

سلام و نعمه
 

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كلام ليس دقيق

هذه المخطوطات فيها قراءة الذي
*א* A* C* F G 33 (256 l597 ὃς θεὸς) 365 442 1175 2127 l60 l599 syrh(mg) syrpal goth eth


وهنا احب ان اشير الى كلام بروس ميتزجر



المخطوطة الاسكندرية انقسم العلماء ماذا تقرا ولكن الغالبية منهم يقولو انها تقرا الذي وليس الله

كما اشرت بالمشاركة السابقة مخطوطة a*


The Identity of the New Testament Text II
Wilbur N. Pickering, ThM PhD



http://www.revisedstandardversion.net/text/WNP/ap_h.html#_ftn15



Problem: A grammatical anomaly is introduced. "Great is the mystery of godliness, who was manifested in flesh" is worse in Greek than it is in English. "Mystery" is neuter in gender while "godliness" is feminine, but "who" is masculine!




Discussion: In an effort to explain the "who" it is commonly argued that the second half of verse 16 was a direct quote from a hymn, but where is the evidence for this claim? Without evidence the claim begs the question.[15] That the passage has some poetic qualities says no more than that it has some poetic qualities. "Who" is nonsensical, so most modern versions that follow UBS here take evasive action: NEB and NASB have "he who"; Phillips has "the one"; NRSV, Jerusalem, TEV and NIV render "he". Berkeley actually has "who"! The Latin reading, "the mystery . . . that," at least makes sense. The true reading, as attested by 99% of the Greek MSS, is "God". In the early MSS "God" was written QC, "who" was written OC, and "that" was written O. The difference between "God" and "who" is just two cross strokes, and with a s c r atchy quill those could easily be light (or a copyist could be momentarily distracted and forget to add the cross strokes). The reading "who" can be explained by an easy t r a n s c r i p t i o n a l error. The reading "that" would be an obvious solution to a copyist faced with the nonsensical "who". Whatever the intention of the UBS editors, their text emasculates this strong statement of the deity of Jesus Christ.









[15]A pronoun normally requires an antecedent, but quoted material might provide an exception. Thus, 1 Corinthians 2:9 is sometimes offered as an instance: the quote from Isaiah 64:4 begins with a pronoun, without a grammatical antecedent (although "mystery" in verse 7 is presumably the referential antecedent). However, the words from Isaiah are formally introduced as a quotation, "as it is written," whereas the material in 1 Timothy 3:16 is not, so there is no valid analogy. Colossians 1:13 or 1:15 have been suggested as analogies for "who" in 1 Timothy 3:16, even claimed as "hymns", but there is no objective support for the claim. The antecedent of the relative pronoun in Colossians 1:15 is "the son" in verse 13, and the antecedent of the relative pronoun in verse 13 is "the father" in verse 12. Again, there is no valid analogy.




The Identity of the New Testament Text II
Wilbur N. Pickering, ThM PhD





 
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/message/3947

Messianic_Apologetic] 1 Timothy 3:16-God was manifest in the flesh, textual evidence

Shalom Messianic_Apologetic,

One of the most important verses for knowing who Messiah is ..

1 Tim 3:16 (KJB)
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit,
seen of angels,
preached unto the Gentiles,
believed on in the world,
received up into
glory.

However, look this up in the modern versions, NIV, CJB, NAS etc..
and you lose the incredible aspect .. no longer ..

"God was manifest in the flesh" instead it is simply
"he appeared in a body" or something similar...

Of course Jesus (he) appeared, he was born, he "showed up" but was He,

God (Elohim/Theos) manifest in the flesh ... ?

.. or was he maybe a regular man "adopted" as Messiah
.. or a great prophet ...
.. or an angel taking another role, etc...

So you can see why those with a low Messiahology run from this passage...
Going instead with the "modern versions" ...

Talk to the JW's, the adoptionists, the "father-onlyists", the biblical unitarians,
your ebionites and pseudo-nazarenes, and you shall see, invariably they
run from the historic ******ures ....

==========

So today we will share excerpts from three websites that help us to know
the actual manu****** evidence ........ the details are mostly in the first, purewords.org :)

You will see one example of many of how absurd the idea of the
alexandrian textcrits is, throwing away the historic ******ures......

Those of you with a little more background can see how silly the
textcrit theories are.. "eg.. Lucian recension", when a passage like this
had tons of early evidences in the Early Church Writers and the
lectionaries...

And how important it is for us to recognize and use the
preserved, inspired Dvar Elohim, the Word of God.....

==========================================================
1 Tim 3:16 GREEK MANU******S EVIDENCE. .Summary from purewords.org

Paul's cursives
252 out of 254 have Theos (God)

Lectionary (very early)
29 of 32 have Theos (God)

Greek Manu******s
300 of 307

Early Church Writers (many very early)
25 of 26 (my count, from below)

TOTALS 606 Theos (God, Elohim)
13 who, or which..

==================================================================

http://www.purewords.org/kjb1611/html/obiblios.htm
Manu****** Evidence for Verses Disputed by the Modern Versions
Taken from appendix 2, III:
O BIBLIOS THE BOOK Allan O'Reilly, 1995
=============
1 Timothy 3:16

"God" has been altered to "He" or "Who" by RV, Ne, NIV, NKJV marg.,
RSV, GN, LB, AMP, NASV, NEB, NWT, JB. The DR has "which".

The alteration of "God" to "He" or "Who" obviously constitutes an attack on the Deity of Jesus Christ by the modern textual critics. ... Fuller....state that all the early Greek editions of the New Testament (Ximenes, Erasmus, Beza, Stephens-see Berry's Greek text, the Elzevirs) read "God was manifest" and hence this must have been the reading of the manu******s available to those editors. The wording of their editions is reflected in all the early English translations (Tyndale 1534, Great Bible 1539, Geneva 1557, Bishops' 1568) except the surviving copies of Wyclif (1380) derived in part from the Vulgate. Moreover, the European versions associated with true Bible believers (Italian (Diodati), French (Osterwald), Spanish (Valera), German (Luther), Portuguese (Almeida)) all concur with the AV1611.

However, the 19th and 20th century Greek editions of the New Testament, culminating in those of Westcott and Hort and Nestle, all rejected "God" in 1 Tim. 3:16 in favour of "who." These corrupt texts form the basis for most of the modern translations. According to Burgon, p 443, the only ancient witness in support of "who" is Aleph (4th cent.), while D (6th cent.) has "which." C (5th cent.) and F and G (9th cent.) are indistinct in this place and their testimony therefore equivocal, while Codex B does not contain 1 Timothy. In addition, Burgon p 99, cites only one cursive copy of Paul's Epistles, designated "Paul 17," as reading "who" in 1 Tim. 3:16. ("Paul 73," a second copy, was thought to be possibly in agreement with "Paul 17" but Burgon, p 99, states it is actually an abridgment of Ecumenius' citation-see later, which reads "God.") Burgon p 483, states that of the ancient versions, only the Gothic (4th cent.) unequivocally witnesses to "who."

Agreeing with D in exhibiting "which" in 1 Tim. 3:16 are the Old Latin (2nd cent.), Vulgate (4th cent.), Peshitta Syriac (2nd cent.) Coptic and Sahidic (3rd and 4th cent.) and Ethiopic (6/7th cent.) versions. The Armenian and Arabic versions are indeterminate in this place (Burgon, ibid p454).

The only fathers in opposition to "God" arc Gelasius of Cyzicus (476 AD), who cites "which" and an unknown author of uncertain date, who also cites "which."

The TBS ibid p 8, state that the Latin, Peshitta and other versions may well have been influenced by the erroneous reading in D, of the "Western" family. Later copies of the Peshitta (4th cent.) may have been influenced by the views of Nestorius, who evidently denied that Christ was both God and man. It is probable therefore, that the earliest copies of the Peshitta, now non- extant, in fact read "God," rather than "who."

The most ancient Greek uncial in favour of "God" in 1 Tim. 3:16, is Codex A (5th cent.). Burgon (p 432-436) cites in detail the witnesses who attest to the horizontal stroke of "Theta" in "Theos" being clearly visible up to the mid 18th century. The TBS pamphlet provides an excellent Summary. In support of A are uncials K, L and P, ("Mosquensis," "Angelicus" and "Porphyrianus" resp.) all of the 9th century.

The extant cursive copies of Paul's letters number 300, of which 254 (designated "Paul 1" to "Paul 301") contain 1 Tim. 3:16. Of these, no less than 252 read "God," in agreement with the AV1611. (The two exceptions, which have already been discussed, are "Paul 17" and "Paul 73," of which the latter is a doubtful witness.) Added to this favourable testimony are 29 out of 32 Lectionary copies from the Eastern Church, reaching back to earliest times t.e. before Aleph, which support the reading "God." (Burgon, p 478, declares the 3 exceptions to be "Western ********s of suspicious character.")

Burgon p 450, 454, 489-90. also cites the Georgian (6th century), Harkleian Syriac (616 AD) and the Slavonic (9th cent.) versions as reading "God." The fathers in support of the AV1611 are as follows (Burgon, p 486-90):

1st Century: Bamabus, Ignatius (90 AD) 2nd Century: Hippolytus (190 AD) 3rd Century: Apostolic Constitutions, Epistle a***ibed to Dionysius of Alexandria (264 AD), Gregory Thaumaturgus 4th Century: Basil the Great (355 AD), Chrysostom (380 AD), Didymus (325 AD), Diodorus (370 AD), Gregory of Nazianzus (355 AD), Gregory of Nyssa (370 AD). "Euthalian" chapter title of I Tim. 3, attesting to "God in the flesh." 5th Century: Anon. citation in works of Athanasius (430 AD), Cyril of Alexandria (410 AD), Euthalius (458 AD), Macedonius 11(496 AD), Theodoret (420 AD) 6th Century: Severus, Bishop of Antioch (512 AD) 8th Century: Epiphanius of Catana (787 AD), John Damascene (730 AD), Theodorus Studita (790 AD) 10th Century: Ecumenius (990 AD) 11th Century: Theophylact (1077 AD) 12th Century: Euthymius (1116 AD).

See also Fuller (4) p 110-1, (32) p98, 260 (summarising Burgon's final findings as 300 Greek manu******s (uncial, cursive, lectionary), reading "God" in 1 Tim. 3:16, vs. 7 which do not), Hills (3) p 137-8, Ruckman (31)See also Part 3 for further discussion on the evidence for the AV1611 reading for this verse.
===================================================================

http://sola******ura-tt.org/Bibliologia-Traducoes/VersesVindicatedInTheKJV-RonSmith.htm
AV VERSES VINDICATED by Ron Smith

1 Timothy 3:16

God was manifest in the flesh.
All believers ought to be aware that "He who was manifest in the flesh" is a spurious reading.
....... the traditional reading is not peculiar to the AV Bible. It is found in Tyndale's translation, the Geneva Bible, the Great Bible, and the Bishop's Bible. "God" is also found in the major European Bibles of Diotati (Italian), Osterwald (French), Valera (Spanish), Luther (German), Almeida (Portuguese), and many others. The vast majority of existing Greek mss. have the word for God. The ancient versions likewise, e.g. Old Latin, Latin Vulgate, Gothic, and more besides. Several of the Fathers refer to God manifest in the flesh. A few mss. have the equivalent of "who" or "which". The Codex Alexandricus, held in the British Museum, appears to have been altered at this verse but the scholars who were able to examine it were in agreement that the original text read THEOS, agreeing with the Received Text, God was manifest in the flesh. (See TBS leaflet No.103).

======================================================================
http://logosresourcepages.org/received.htm

EARLY WITNESSES TO THE RECEIVED TEXT
Compiled by Pastor David L. Brown, Ph.D.

Again, I assert, that since the reading of early church leaders match the Received or Byzantine text, that this text existed and was in use from a very early time!

1 Timothy 3:16 KJV – "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." This passage is supported by Ignatius (35-116 A.D.) "God was in the flesh." (To the Ephesians 1:1:7), by Hippolytus (170-236 A.D.) "God was manifested in the flesh." (Against the Heresies of Noetus I: 1:17), and Dionysius (3rd cent.) "For God was manifested in the flesh." (Conciliations I: 1:853)

======================================================

Shalom,
Schmuel
 

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1 TIMOTHY 3:16 - REVIEW OF EVIDENCES - INTRODUCTION

Understandably the following is truly a battleground verse,
especially vis a vis the Deity of Messiah,
and needs a little discussion of its authority :)

1 Tim 3:16 (KJB)
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit,
seen of angels,
preached unto the Gentiles,
believed on in the world,
received up into glory.

Note that if you get taken in by modern version "textcrit" and its reliance on two ultra-corrupt manu******s, then you will always fight the Word of God.

We addressed the evidence last in 2002 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/message/3947
We will we-address it some, with some new material, especially on the early church writers.


INTERNAL EVIDENCE IS STRONGLY FOR "THEOS "
Grammatially the very lightly attested alternatives simply don't work, as the few manu******s generally have "who" or "which" instead of God, which is a grammatical abomination, lacking a subject.

Also the manu****** evidence is overwhelming, here I will give a summary

GREEK MANUSCIPT EVIDENCE IS OVERWHELMING FOR "THEOS"
1 Tim 3:16 GREEK MANU******S EVIDENCE.

============================================================
EARLY CHURCH WRITER CITATIONS -
APPROX 20 HAVE "God was manifest...."


The following are early church writers who support the "God is manifest in the flesh".

The first group of three are 100-200 years before the earliest manu******s.
These are especially significant as the nonsense claim against the verse is that it was somehow inserted late, and then somehow took over the diverse manu****** line.

======================================================================
BEFORE 300 AD.



There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; God (Theos) existing in flesh (sarki); true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first possible and then impossible, even Jesus Christ our Lord.",Ephesians 7:2

Hence every kind of magic was destroyed, and every bond of wickedness disappeared; ignorance was removed, and the old kingdom abolished, God Himself being manifested (phanerosas) in human form for the renewal of eternal life. And now that took a beginning which had been prepared by God. Ephesians 19:3

Longer, (probably not Ignatius), form of this epistle has
“God being manifested as a man” (theou anthropinos phaneroumenou).

http://individual.utoronto.ca/jskira/syllabus-0-843-02.html
On this account also they were persecuted, being inspired by His grace to fully convince the unbelieving that there is one God, who has manifested Himself by Jesus Christ His Son, who is His eternal Word, not proceeding forth from silence, and who in all things pleased Him that sent Him. Magnesians 8:a

IGNATIUS SUMMARY
Reasonable sense of allusion to 1 Timothy 3:16,
combined over three complimentary verses, with vocabulary matching.

===========================================================================================
Hippolytus (170-236 AD)

Psalm 2 - http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/hippolytus-exegetical.html
On Psalm II
When he came into the world, He was manifested as God and man.

Noetus - http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/hippolytus-dogmatical.html
Against Noetus 17:5
"He now, coming forth into the world, was manifested as God in a body."

Appendix - http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-05/anf05-20.htm
Appendix 1
"Thus, too, they preached of the advent of God in the flesh to the world."

Appendix 22
For our God sojourned with us in the flesh."

HIPPOLYTUS SUMMARY
Four verses that strongly reflect "God was manifest in the flesh"

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Dionysius of Alexandria - (264 AD), also called Pseudo-Dionysius
"For God was manifest in the flesh, made of woman,
born out of God the Father, out of the womb before the morning star."
Sacrosancta concilia
"It has been alleged that the letter to Paul of Samosata was not actually the work of Dionysius,
but it cannot be denied that it belongs to the 3rd century and has "God". - Terence Brown
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Now here are the mass of ECW references from the early years,
generally before or around the same time as the earliest manu******s.
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1 Timothy 3:16 "THEOS" 300-525 AD

SUMMARY

Apostolic Constitutions 4th century (represents earlier tradition)
Gregory Thaumaturgus; 4th Century:
Chrysostom (380 AD),
Didymus (325 AD),
Diodorus of Taurus (370 AD), quotes Paul's actual words asserts them in Paul's epistle to Timothy.
Gregory of Nazianzus (355 AD),
Gregory of Nyssa (370 AD). (over 20 references)
Chrysostom (died A.D. 407) has at least three references to God manifest in the flesh,
Cyril of Alexandria (410 AD),
Theodoret (420 AD)
Euthalius (458 AD) fifth-century writer chapter title of I Tim. 3, attesting to "God in the flesh."
Anonymous -- citation in works of Athanasius (430 AD),
Macedonius 11(496 AD),
Severus, (6th century)
Bishop of Antioch (512 AD)
(many more later)
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DETAIL - WIP for Web page

Apostolic Constintustions - (4th century, earlier tradition),
http://www.piney.com/DocAposConstitu2.html
http://www.catholicfirst.com/thefaith/churchfathers/volume07/apostolic09.cfm
Thou, O God, who art powerful, faithful, and true, and without deceit in thy promises; who didst send upon earth Jesus thy Christ to live with men, as a man, when he was God the Word, and man, to take away error by the roots: . . . “Hosanna to the Son of David. Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the Lord” ­God the Lord, who was manifested to us in the flesh.
Apostolical Constitutions. Book 7.Section XXVI

Athanasiaus - (c. 350 AD),
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness, God was manifest in the flesh."
Ephesians 14

Gregory of Nazianus - (c. 355 AD)
http://www.levendwater.org/analysis/a3/mystery_manifested.htm
Gregory of .. Nazianzus (quoted Theos) in two places (Burgon)

Diodorus of Tarsus - (c. 360 AD)
http://www.wayoflife.org/articles/truefalse/truefalse03.htm - Terence H. Brown
Diodorus of Tarsus (died A.D. 370) quotes Paul's actual words and asserts that he
finds them in Paul's epistle to Timothy.

Gregory Nyssa - (c. 380 AD),
"He, I say, appeared on earth and conversed with men ... that we might be convinced that God was manifested in the flesh, and believe that to be the only true mystery of godliness, which was delivered to us by the very Word and God."
Against Apollinarius

"And hence it is that all who preach the word point out the wonderful character of the mystery in this respect, that God was manifested in the flesh." Gregory Nyssa (331-395 AD),
Against Apollinarius

.....the Gospel proclaims "the Word became flesh" [Jn 1.14] and the Spirit descended in the form of a dove [Mt 3.16]. Nothing is said here of the Spirit becoming incarnate with regard to the mystery of our faith. "His glory has dwelt in our land" [Ps 84.10]. "Truth has sprung from the earth" [Ps 84.12]. "God has manifested himself in flesh" [1Tm 3.126].
Against Apollinarius [J.147]

our Lord's dispensation for mankind when God manifested himself in the flesh,
Against Apollinarius [J.135]

"Gregory of Nyssa frequently and powerfully testified for "God manifest in the flesh" ....Gregory died in A.D. 394 and his life spanned the period during which the 4th century Codex Sinaiticus was written. In those of his writings that have survived he has "God" in this text no less than twenty-two times. - Terence H. Brown
Some references from - http://www.bhsu.edu/artssciences/asfaculty/dsalomon/nyssa/appolin.html


Chrysotom - (c. 400 AD),
"And wonder not that Paul saith in another place, God was manifested in the flesh
... after saying, was manifested in the flesh, he adds, was seen of angels."
John, Homily 15.

"Since in his directions to the Priests he had required nothing like what is found in Leviticus he refers the whole matter to Another, saying, God was manifest in the flesh. The Creator was seen incarnate. He was justified in the Spirit."
1st Timothy, Homily 2

"Chrysostom (died A.D. 407) has at least three references to God manifest in the flesh"
Terence H. Brown

Augustine - (c. 410 AD)
"In using this blasphemous language, he probably referred to the representations of Jesus as God manifest in the flesh, which he regarded as Jewish and abominable." Augustine (354-430 AD), Against the Manichaeans, Chapter 3

"It is God manifest in the flesh that meets all the conditions for the solution of the problem of human existence." Augustine (354-430 AD), Against the Manichaeans, Chapter 8

Cyril of Alexander - (c. 410 AD),
http://www.wayoflife.org/articles/truefalse/truefalse03.htm
Cyril of Alexandria who wrote "God manifest..." in two places, while in another he wrote, "Ye do err, not knowing the ******ures, nor indeed the great mystery of Godliness, that is Christ, who was manifested in the flesh". Elsewhere he wrote, "I consider the mystery of Godliness to be no other but the Word of God the Father, who Himself was manifested in the flesh". These uses of "who" cannot be quoted against the presence of "God" in the manu******s in Cyril's hands.

Euthalius - (c. 450 AD)
http://www.wayoflife.org/articles/truefalse/truefalse03.htm
Euthalius in the 5th century attributed to a "wise and pious Father" the section title for 1 Timothy 3:16-4:7. This title makes mention of "God incarnate" and was used by Gregory of Nyssa in his dispute with Apollinaris in the 4th century.

Anonymous - (c 430 AD) citation in works of Athanasius
Among 5th century witnesses was a writer formerly confused with Athanasius. At the time of the Nestorian controversy this now anonymous writer insisted that the correct reading was "God". This writer would have settled the great debate about the testimony of the Codex Alexandrinus in favour of "God". The anonymity of the writer does not weaken the force of his testimony. - Terence Brown

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GENERAL SUGGESTION

Dean John Burgon demonstrated the overwhelming evidence for the Byzantine/Majority reading of the
verse over 100 years ago. There has never been a refutation.

Anybody on this forum who attacks 1 Timothy 3:16
God was manifest in the flesh,
should be ready to actually deal with the actual evidences,
and not just quote a 'textcrit scholar' like Bruce Metzgar or Bart Ehrman.

If you need help understanding why
a) the paradigms of modern textcrit are way off,
b) how the "modern versions" of the Bible of the Month Club are grossly defective,
c) and how it came about that they rely principally on two grossly corrupt manu******s.

We will be happy to assist you :)
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URL BIBLIOGRAPHY

http://www.patriotist.com/wkarch/wk20030707.htm
1 Timothy 3:16 - GOD was Manifest in the Flesh - Will Kinney

http://members.aol.com/DrTHolland/Chapter3.html
Thomas Holland
A textual variant of great importance is found in 1 Timothy 3:16. The King James Version reads, "God was manifest in the flesh." Most contemporary versions, using the Alexandrian Text, read, "He was manifest in the flesh." There is an obvious difference between He and God. The KJV makes a clear proclamation concerning the deity of Jesus Christ. Ignatius apparently used a text that reflected the reading found in the KJV. He writes, "There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; God existing in flesh" (Ephesians 7:1) and "God Himself being manifested in human form" (Ephesians 19:1). Ignatius uses the Greek words for God (theos) and for flesh (sarki) in the first citation, and a form of the Greek word for manifest (peanerosas) in the second. This would agree with the Greek found in the Traditional Text.

Information, other language versions, Westcott Hort historical
http://www.wayoflife.org/articles/truefalse/truefalse03.htm
TRUE OR FALSE? - Edited by David Otis Fuller
GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH (1 Timothy 3:16) - By Terence H. Brown
THE WEAKNESS OF THE ARGUMENT FROM SILENCE
Westcott and Hort and other modern scholars have argued that if the correct reading had been "God manifest..." Origen and Eusebius would have quoted it. Nothing can be proved in this way.

http://www.studytoanswer.net/bibleversions/gnostic.html#itim316
Gnostic Corruptions in the Critical Texts
A Case Study On the Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament, 21st Edition - Timothy W. Dunkin.
This alteration seems pretty straightforward. By changing "God" to the more general "he", the potentially offensive (to Gnostics) idea that the Demiurge would be incarnated into the world and "justified in the Spirit", "received up into glory", etc. is diverted. Thus, the alteration avoids casting the Demiurge into the role which should be fulfilled by the heavenly alien Saviour. On the other hand, if one wishes to consider "God" in this passage (from a Gnostic point of view) as referring to the Eternal Father, then this change is equally supportive of Gnostic theology. The truth of the voluntary incarnation of the eternal God into His own creation is weakened, and replaced with language which could still support the entry of Jesus Christ, as a created aeon, into the material world.
Support for the Textus Receptus Reading
4th c. (poss. 7th c.) corrector of Codex Sinaiticus
5th c. corrector of Codex Alexandrinus
6th c. corrector of Ephraemi Re******us
9th c. copy of Codex Bezae Cantabrigiensis [D]
----
The large majority of the Byzantine text set
The large majority of the Greek lectionaries



Good notes from Dean John Burgon
http://www.mag-net.com/~maranath/OLDBEST.HTM#TIM316
The Oldest and Best Manu******s By Cecil J. Carter
When scholars list Vaticanus as omitting "God", from the text they are sorely tempted not to mention, that Hort's oldest and best Vaticanus, omits ALL of the first and send Timothy, Titus, and Revelation.

The Evidence for reading "God was manifest in the flesh".

All the Uncial copies, (in Burgon's day) except two.
The 15,000 times repaired Sinaiticus.
And the most depraved of all Mss.-D.
All of the cursives except one.
And Vaticanus which omits all of 1st and 2nd Timothy, and consequently has nothing to say in this great controversy.

http://www.avbibleversesvindicated.blogspot.com/
AV Verses Vindicated. Romans to Revelation


These next two have lots of excellent information, although may need a couple
of corrections or adjustments too, the tone is a bit harsh.
http://www.lamblion.net/Articles/patristic_chart.htm
Scott Jones - Patristic Comparision Chart

http://www.lamblion.net/Articles/ScottJones/false_citations.htm
Scott Jones - False Citations in NA/UBS 1 Timothy 3:16 Examined
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COMMENTARY ON "MYSTERY"

http://www.levendwater.org/analysis/a3/mystery_manifested.htm
Mystery Manifested (!) By Charles H. Welch
The relative pronoun hos should agree with its antecedent, yet musterion is neuter. Bloomfield in his Synoplica says, "hos ephanerothe is not Greek".
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BOOKS

http://vancepublications.com/classic%20reprints.htm
Classic Reprints No. 68
A Defense of the Reading 'God Was Manifest in the Flesh' in 1 Timothy 3:16
By Ebenezer Henderson and Moses Stuart 1832 80 pages $15.00
Long before Dean Burgon (1813-1888) defended the genuineness of the reading "God Was Manifest in the Flesh" in 1 Timothy 3:16, as it appears in the Authorized Version, these two scholars had already done so in the pages of the Congregational magazine The Biblical Repository.

And the Dean Burgon book - Revision Revised

This includes Revision Revised - with some editing and weaknesses
http://www.chrlitworld.com/RecentPubs/unholyhands1.htm
Unholy Hands on the Bible, Volume 1,
An Introduction to Textual Criticism

http://www.deanburgonsociety.org/DeanBurgon/dbs0804.htm
Burgon's Warnings on Revision of the Textus Receptus and the King James Bible
By Pastor D. A. Waite, Th. D., Ph. D., DBS President
... Dean Burgon, the master textualist, had some very important WARNINGS in his scholarly book, The Revision Revised. The Dean Burgon Society has reprinted this fine volume in a 640 page hardback beautiful edition. It is available as B.F.T. #611 @ $25.00 +$5.00 S&H. The readers are encouraged to study this book and check out the page references for themselves.

Good discussion in the Standish book
http://www.champs-of-truth.com/reform/STN_MBTU.PDF or
http://www.temcat.com/Liberty/standish/bibletrans/mbtutoc.htm
Modern Bible Translations Unmasked - Russell and Colin Standish (SDA)


http://www.temcat.com/Liberty/standish/bibletrans/mbtu18.htm
Chapter 18 - A Crucial Text
But no English Bible of the Protestant Reformation affronted our Lord in this manner. They translated this passage as follows:
God was shewed in the flesche. Tyndale, 1534
God was shewed in the flesche. Great Bible, 1539
God is shewed in the flesche. Geneva New Testament, 1557
God was shewed manifestly in the flesh. Bishop’s Bible, 1568

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FUTURE WEB PAGE OUTLINE SUGGESTION - WIP

1 Timothy 3:16 - "God was manifest in the flesh"

1) Manu****** Evidence (including lectionary)
2) Early Church Writer Evidence
3) Grammatical Considerations
4) Theos Alternative Quandry (the huge difficulties with the various non-Theos alternatives)

ALSO
5) Doctrinal Considerations
6) Objectionist History, unitarian, JW, islamist and others opposed to the Deity of Messiah

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WESTCOTT AND HORT MANIPULATIONS

We even know the actual history of the attempt to change the Bible.
http://www.pathlights.com/onlinebooks/downloads/The%20King%20James%20&%20Modern%20Translations.pdf
The King James Bible and the Modern Versions by Vance Ferrell

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]Smith, Vance (19th century) ­ Pastor of St. Saviour’s Gate Unitarian Church. His participation in the Revision Committee of 1871-1881 evoked bitter controversy, especially with regard to the role he played in removing the word, God, from 1 Timothy 3:16. This apostate worked closely with Westcott and Hort, in controlling the translation of the English Revised Version. p. 37[/FONT]​

But Westcott declared that he would leave the committee if Smith was forced out. So Smith was kept on the committee. It is for such reasons that, when the English Revised Version was printed in 1881, 1 Timothy 3:16 was changed from "God was manifest in the flesh" to "who was manifest in the flesh." p. 203

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]1 Timothy 3:16 is a shocking example of what happens when modern translators take two manu******s (the Sinaiticus and Vaticanus)­and ignore all the rest. Under the urging of Westcott and Hort, the Revision Committee of 1871-1881 viciously attacked the Deity of Christ in 1 Timothy 3:16. They altered the traditional, "God was manifest in the flesh," to the corrupt, "he who was manifest in the flesh." They had the Sinaiticus and Vaticanus as support for this change. In response to this, Burgon wrote a letter, pleading with the committee’s chairman, Bishop Ellicott, not to permit that to be put in the new Bible.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]"Behold then the provision which the Author of ******ure has made for the effectual conservation in its integrity of this portion of His written Word! Upwards of 1,800 years have run their course since the Holy Ghost, by His servant Paul, rehearsed ‘the Mystery of Godliness,’ declaring this to be the great foundation fact, namely, that ‘God was manifest in the flesh.’ And lo! out of 254 copies of St. Paul’s Epistles, no less than 252 are discovered to have preserved that expression. The copies whereof we speak were procured in every part of Christendom, being derived in every instance from copies older than themselves; which again were tran******s of copies older still. They have since found their way, without design or contrivance, into the libraries of every country in Europe, where they are jealously guarded . . We submit, as a proper and just conclusion from these facts, that men who, in view of the evidence before them, would cast out of the ******ure at this vital point, the word ‘God’ and replace it by ‘he who’ have thereby demonstrated their unfitness for the work of revising the Greek text of the New Testament."­Burgon, quoted in Fuller, True or False? p. 98.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]"The minority manu******s disagree as much (or more) among themselves as they do with the majority. We are not judging between two text forms, one representing 90% of the manu******s and the other 10%. Rather we have to judge between 90% and a fraction of 1% (comparing the Majority Text with P75 and B text form for example). Or to take a specific case, in 1 Timothy 3:16, over 300 Greek manu******s read ‘God’ [KJV] . . Greek manu******s read ‘who’ [NIV, NASV, etc.] So we have to judge between 97% and 2% . . - ­Wilbur Pickering, The Identity of the New Testament Text, pp. 114-120, 25, 149, 150, 237.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]P.103 in the Vance Farrell book.[/FONT]​

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Some Bible Versions --

TRADITIONAL TEXT

God was shewed in the flesche. Tyndale, 1534
God was shewed in the flesche. Great Bible, 1539
God is shewed in the flesche. Geneva New Testament, 1557
God was shewed manifestly in the flesh. Bishop’s Bible, 1568

"And confessedly the mystery of piety is great. God has been manifested in flesh, has been justified in the Spirit, has appeared to angels, has been preached among the nations, has been believed on in the world, has been received up in glory." (Darby)

"And without controversy, great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." (Webster)

"[A]nd, confessedly, great is the secret of piety­God was manifested in flesh, declared righteous in spirit, seen by messengers, preached among nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory!" (Young's Literal Translation)

Without controversy, the mystery of godliness is great: God was revealed in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, and received up in glory.
(World English Bible)

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up in glory." (NKJ)

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1 TIMOTHY 3:16 AFFLICTED VERSIONS

"Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory." (NIV)

"And by common confession great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, was vindicated in the Spirit, beheld by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory." (NAS)

(RNKJV) And without controversy great is the mystery of reverence: who was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

(Diaglott) A pillar and basis of the truth and confessedly great is the of the piety secret. Who was manifested in flesh, was justified in spirit, was seen by messengers, was proclaimed among nations, was believed among a world, was taken up in glory.

(Weymouth)
And, beyond controversy, great is the mystery of our religion-- that Christ appeared in human form, and His claims justified by the Spirit, was seen by angels and proclaimed among Gentile nations, was believed on in the world, and received up again into glory. WEY

American Standard Version (with typical footnote)
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory
"The word God, in place of He who, rest on no sufficient ancient evidence. Some ancient authorities read which."

(NetBible) And we all agree, our religion contains amazing revelation:He was revealed in the flesh,vindicated by the Spirit,seen by angels,proclaimed among Gentiles,believed on in the world,taken up in glory. (combined with the usual Daniel Wallace footnote convoluted stuff)

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GREEK

1st Timothy 3:16
kai omologoumenws mega estin to ths eusebeias musthrion os efanerwqh en sarki edikaiwthh en pneumati wfthh aggelois ekhrucqh en ethnesin episteuthh en kosmw anelhmfthh en doxh
(Westcott-Hort text from 1881).

1st Timothy 3:16
kai omologoumenws mega estin to ths eusebeias musthrion theos efanerwqh en sarki edikaiwthh en pneumati wfthh aggelois ekhrucqh en ethnesin episteuthh en kosmw anelhfthh en doxh
(Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus).

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Shalom,
Schmuel

 
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